A very big question.
If you understand the theology behind why celibacy is spiritually superior to being married, are you then obligated to seek it out?
Can there be any justification for not being celibate if you can find no flaw the logic?
The fathers are careful to defend, and even go so far as to anathamatise anyone who denigrates, marrage. But they are equally careful to extol celibacy as being vastly better. Ergo, the ideal would be (and check me if I'm wrong here) that all Orthodox would embrace celibacy, and the church would expand by conversion only. In a perfect world. In reality the church fathers are not stupid and never for a moment thought or believed that this would happen. But does that give an excuse? Is it true that once you grasp the truth of that theology, you are then obligated to follow a celibate life even though you have, ostensably, a choice? If you were in front of the judgment throne and asked why you chose to marry over choosing celibacy, when you had been granted this understanding...is there any answer good enough?
I could not bear it Lord.
But theoretically everyone can, if they give themselves to God utterly. It is easier for some than for others, but in principle, anyone can. Right? Wrong? I don't know. The concept of celibacy seemes to me an incredably bitter one. I cannot make myself like it no matter how hard I try. I cannot even make myself ask for it seriously. I am at very bitter war with myself. On the one hand, I find no flaw in the church fathers logic (shocking I know), on the other hand, I burn with unwillingness to forgo marrage forever. Everything I ever wanted, a wife, a family, children, sex. etc... none of it is acceptable...or is it? It's not a sin. That much is clear. But what is acceptable once you know something more than you used to know? Accountability is a gigantic thing in Orthodoxy. You are accountable for what you know, but I'd be lying if I said this knowledge felt like anything other than a hot coal inside me, burning, screaming to be expelled, or finally swallowd, one or the other, and I cannot bring myself to swallow it. Nor can I reject the logic that put it there. I am at an indecision that will surely kill me if I do not do something about it with a good lick of speed.
I am seeking any wisdom at all that anyone reading this has to dispense.
Alexey the Sinner.
Can there be any justification for not being celibate if you can find no flaw the logic?
The fathers are careful to defend, and even go so far as to anathamatise anyone who denigrates, marrage. But they are equally careful to extol celibacy as being vastly better. Ergo, the ideal would be (and check me if I'm wrong here) that all Orthodox would embrace celibacy, and the church would expand by conversion only. In a perfect world. In reality the church fathers are not stupid and never for a moment thought or believed that this would happen. But does that give an excuse? Is it true that once you grasp the truth of that theology, you are then obligated to follow a celibate life even though you have, ostensably, a choice? If you were in front of the judgment throne and asked why you chose to marry over choosing celibacy, when you had been granted this understanding...is there any answer good enough?
I could not bear it Lord.
But theoretically everyone can, if they give themselves to God utterly. It is easier for some than for others, but in principle, anyone can. Right? Wrong? I don't know. The concept of celibacy seemes to me an incredably bitter one. I cannot make myself like it no matter how hard I try. I cannot even make myself ask for it seriously. I am at very bitter war with myself. On the one hand, I find no flaw in the church fathers logic (shocking I know), on the other hand, I burn with unwillingness to forgo marrage forever. Everything I ever wanted, a wife, a family, children, sex. etc... none of it is acceptable...or is it? It's not a sin. That much is clear. But what is acceptable once you know something more than you used to know? Accountability is a gigantic thing in Orthodoxy. You are accountable for what you know, but I'd be lying if I said this knowledge felt like anything other than a hot coal inside me, burning, screaming to be expelled, or finally swallowd, one or the other, and I cannot bring myself to swallow it. Nor can I reject the logic that put it there. I am at an indecision that will surely kill me if I do not do something about it with a good lick of speed.
I am seeking any wisdom at all that anyone reading this has to dispense.
Alexey the Sinner.
posted by Alexios at 11:24 PM
2 Comments:
Ok, from a married guy. Don't you find it odd that Marriage is a sacrament in the Church but "prized" celibacy is not?
IMHO, if you're so conflicted about this, you don't have the "calling" to be celibate.
I think those who so prize celibacy are rationalizing why they are denying God's very first request to humankind, viz., to go out and be fruitful and produce more humankind.
I don't think celibacy in itself is wrong, but I do think it is wrong to force someone who is a round peg (no Freudian symbol here, really 8-b ) into the celibate square hole. Or to expect that person to do so. It's forced devotion which will not work nohow and definitely noway.
Is is wrong to argue with the Fathers and St. Paul? I don't think so.
But it also does not diminish their wisdom and advice.
---Your new buddy from a coupla posts down.
Actually, Celibacy is a sacrament. Taking on monastic vows, anyway. Celibacy just by istelf is simply abstinance.
As far as a calling is concerned, it is inconsistant with what I understand of God that some people are more capable of salvation and some less. It is more in keeping, with what feels right, that anyone can do anything, if only he can bear to sacrifice enough of himself.
Also, the position of the church as I have heard the aincent fathers put it is that we are no longer in need of marriage. "For they shall neither marry nor be given in marrage..." That we ever had to reproduce in the first place was because of the Fall. We introduced death, which is itself un-natural, and in order for the species to continue we had to procreate.
In the old testament, prior to the prophesies concerning the arrival of Christ, a woman was considered acursed if her womb was barren. After the messiah was prohpesied, the tone changed. You find quotes such as "Blessed is the breast that never gave suck".
The way I've come to look at it is by envisioning Gods reaction to the two choices in the afterlife thusly:
Celibacy: "Hot damn! Way to go ace!!!"
Marrage: "Cool. Good job."
The Fathers would go so far as to anathamatize anyone who would disparage marrage. It is after all, the way in which the Messiah was brought into the world. It does create families, and it does prevent many sins. But if you are (forgive me) "Uber 7337", you decline it and give your virginity to Christ.
That being said, as I am now, I cannot imagine not being married with a small army of children.
The church teaches that to embrace suffering and struggles is the way to grace. Hello? Having lots of kids? Tons of joy, yes, but tons of trials as well.
Maybe I'm rationalizing. Who knows. God, give me grace and wisdom.
Alexios
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